A tweet on twitter that caused such a flutter
A thought provoking article by Shalini Puthiyedam..
A tweet on twitter set me off thinking on this one. The tweet in question likened marriage to being in a bath tub. The more one got used to it, the less hot (as in desirable) it was.
It troubled me no end that a comment could be so callous and flippant. I wondered if the writer of this comment had any clue as to the import of the content that he was proudly tweeting. Firstly, the comment is as sexist as it can get. It attacks the woman in the marriage not very subtly I must add. It presumes that the man who was a perfect being before marriage has been grossly undone by the act of committing himself. Secondly, the imagery evoked leaves nothing much to the imagination as to the angle the man wants to impress upon.
I find this a curiously Indian male pastime to indulge in this flippant and often insulting and derogatory talk about marriage. I always wonder too as to why then these very same men finally do go and tie themselves and get bound in a marriage. They have a choice, isn’t it? They can say no.
If marriage is a platform for sexual gratification, then I do not think that in today’s liberalized world, its very difficult to obtain that. Urban India is very different from may be the India of even 10 years ago. So, I do not think that it is that which drives the majority of the male population to talk in such fashion. I think it is because the Indian urban male of today is a confused soul. We as an ancient civilization are yet to find our true selves in this rapidly shrinking world.
We are exposed to the proliferation of media of all types from the visual to the virtual and thereby exposed to all manner of cultures and influences. Now, the Indian male has been up until this point following the laws laid down since Vedic times that a man has to go through stages of life namely childhood, adolescence, marriage, career, children and then aging gracefully seeking enlightenment. Each stage had been well set and planned out. There was predictability and stability to the order of things. To add to this, all the great love stories like Laila-Majnu, Heer-Ranjha and others all ended as tragedies reinforcing the belief (and this is my personal opinion) that love has only a limited place in the business of living. That it eventually led only to grief and huge despair. I do not profess to know of the origins of arranged marriage but all the above factors combined to give this practice an acceptance that was total. Marriages were solemnized as a continuum of the life duties of the respective brides and grooms. This was until we began to be exposed to the occidental society which could not fathom at all the meaning of this curiously Indian practice – the arranged marriage. With the opening up of media and the arrival of the Internet, this cross access became rapid.
The grass as they say is always greener on the other side. So, the Indian populace seeing the images of giddy lovers and madly courting couples who were oblivious to the existence of the world outside of themselves began to aspire for the same even though the model had its own pitfalls.
Women are more expressive of their needs and in a society that didn’t care much about what the woman felt, such portrayal of equal partnership in a relationship was something that was not difficult for them to embrace. The men on the other hand though being equally drawn to the idea had difficulty in accepting the feminine part of themselves. It was considered to be unmanly to be sentimental and accepting of the woman as his equal. So, to go into denial mode was the next best thing and what better way than to relegate the woman to the status of an object of pleasure.
It would be seriously amazing if we could marry the pragmatism and rootedness of our ancient culture with the headiness and passion of the west and bring alchemy to this relationship that we take as bedrock of the unit called family.
Love is a beautiful emotion and it should be the basis for any meaningful relationship. It allows both the partners to respect and cherish each other. At the same time there should be the space for the respective partners to grow and bloom. If our Indian males can grow up to accept that women are their equals and cherish their differences, there will be less people making such unthinking comments as that which spurred me to put down my thoughts.
I end with this verse from Kahlil Gibran’s “The prophet”. It is a verse which resonates for me. It brings forth the power of love as well as the responsibility that go with it. It lifts the relationship to a higher plane which is what humans strive for. It speaks of the alchemy that I fervently wish we as a nation which is most capable of integrating and coalescing aspire for. I hope it resonates for you too who read this piece.
Let there be spaces in your togetherness.
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other’s keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow.– Kahlil Gibran (1883-1931)
Shalini Puthiyedam is an engineer, NGO volunteer, teacher, French linguist, amateur singer, home maker and a world citizen who has aspirations for a just and equal world. You may wanna follow her @shalinipv
Wow, this article thrashes male chauvinism. Although it’s focussedon the Indian male population, I guess it’s a global phenomenon. May be a less pronounced in western societies. what say you?
Hi,
Well, I really didn’t know that my audience if any at all that is
would be based outside of India. Hence the India centric piece. Thank you for your support and I am a little surprised to hear that the phenomenon is there even in so called emancipated societies too.
The trouble is the way Kahlil Gibran is quoted when he happens to be a known misogamic and sexist who all his life failed to cultivate any lasting relation with women without first reducing her to an item of sex.
The same old problem between reality and poetry.
Gibran was a chauvinistic romantic? Sounds like he was hurt badly as a young man and became cynical about love after that. Many of us roller coaster through love, one year singing it’s praises (in a new relationship) another year decrying it’s misery. I have been married 20 years and I have to say that the poem well expresses my feelings. Close but not clingy, together but individual, giving not taking. My children and I have recently been drawn to several new Indian feature movies. I really liked the conservative values portrayed by the traditional families but I see it slipping away. I was very impressed that the beauty queen, Aishwarya Rai, recently got married as a virgin at 25 years old. Unheard of in America anymore, unless you hang around with my friends. Life changes life…
Hi,
Thank you for your comment.
However, I beg to differ with you on Gibran. Still, considering that you might have done a far more serious research and presuming that what you say is true, it does not detract from the beauty of the piece. How does it really matter what the man was if he is inspiring millions in a positive way. We dont need to throw out the baby with the bath water. If there is disconnect between reality and poetry so be it.
I would like reactions to the piece itself on the whole. We must remember that Gibran is not the central theme of this piece.
Well there is real conflict between reality and poetry. The way I see it is that males don’t grow up to accept even other males as equals. I think this is more a case of biology then poetry. It doesn’t take long for the space of wishful circle to grow into a deep well. But there are also exceptions. Like they say Ignorance is bliss, compromise is better. The innocence of Poetry can only speak when there is blissful ignorance between the two, that is, individuality as such has not yet wormed its shadow between the two and the demand for spaces is yet to be contested.
I think Gibran’s use of imagery and metaphor is itself questionable. It shows why he failed to fully let go as in the case of Laila and Majunu. There is a condition quantified in his “And stand together yet not too near together” And conditional spaces can only create compromises and thus in the end cannot hold the unconditional (love) that is tacitly demanded by him. (Love I think is unconditional)
Coming to the point. The problematic exist in our very demands that we place upon each-other, and this begs the questions, that, can our arguments that we bring here in this post/thread let things be as they are between the two of us (who hold different views, )or will a compromise be demanded.
This is the core problematic I see in your post as well as Gibran’s poem.
I am sorry I am being very honest here.
Hi Rajiv,
Absolutely no compromise is demanded of you. We are independent beings with our own ways of looking at things. A change in the outlook that we hold can only come about if we are convinced of the need to change. So we can be in disagreement and yet be respectful of each other.
No apologies are in order and I greatly value all the feedback. Thanks.
Great start,
Please concentrate on Morality and ethics,God bless u..
Hello,
Thank you and I
cherish the God bless
@Shalini – It’s a stereotypical post in the first place. One cannot accuse the entire male (poor men!) community just for some stupid tweet on twitter. When people are indulging into social networking, it’s natural that they pass on such flippant jokes around – just to put a smile on one’s face. It does no harm, does it? Barking dogs seldom bite..actually, these would be the noble souls that take good care of their wives..or even getting nice thrashings day in and day out. What say you?
@Rajiv – “The way I see it is that males don’t grow up to accept even other males as equals.” Bulls eye! This is the truth that everyone needs to talk about. There sure is a rift between poetry and reality. Poetry is good for your dreams – when you dream of an IDEAL world!
WoW! is my reaction after reading this article. And I would like to hit the bulls eye by saying that those who live by thinking that variety is the spice of life, dig their own graves. ‘Equal responsibility’ is a forgotten word in any troubled relationship these days. And that is what triggers of such light-minded comments. The day when we believe in love in its true sense, true alchemy will rule every family!
Hi,
Thank you for the praise and your own observations on the subject. I know this subject will be cause for much debate as it is a fundamental one, never out of fashion, never out of date.
Keep thinking!!
Great read.
My favorite – “It would be seriously amazing if we could marry the pragmatism and rootedness of our ancient culture with the headiness and passion of the west and bring alchemy to this relationship that we take as bedrock of the unit called family.”
It is this balance that’s missing today for one reason or the other. Yet another matter of interest is how we work towards bringing alchemy to this relationship; what goes into it and the magnitude of effort required by both parties involved to sustain this “marriage”.
Keep writing !
Hi Vineetha,
Thank you very much for your appreciation and its great to see some voices of women on this one.
I must be very honest and say that I didn’t expect this much reaction at the outset and I am pleased to see that its got people thinking. I am feeling a little more surer of myself and I do think that I might continue to write. Its thanks to ubiquitense to give me this opportunity and I feel inspired to write some more. As long as the writing is setting off thoughts and debates, its a sign that we are living.
Thank you and I shall try to do my best each time!
Keep smiling!
[...] : Shalini Puthiyedam What : A tweet on twitter that caused such a flutter Spicy : The tweet in question likened marriage to being in a bath tub. The more one got used to it, [...]
I loved your post. Though it may seem as generalization (how I hate this term), but some men do get kicks in mocking marriages and women. Some people have this marriage bashing as USP for their tweeting identities.
Well written piece that smacks the few pretentious ones right in face.
Oh yes, and you could follow me on twitter at http://twitter.com/_alps We could exchange few notes
Hi,
Thank you for your comments. And yeah, I’d sure like to catch up with you on twitter.
Marriage is a relationship in which ” one ” person is always right and the other is the husband!……:)”"
just wanna add here folks…..its a nice article and yea thought provoking but i really dont think all men really care about what women like u say…u might be a die hard feminist but that woudnt make u any better than the rest….i dont understand y u females require soo much from a male….common ppl grow up..all have their faults..live wit it or die cryin
Hi,
If you say that the piece is thought provoking, I do not understand why it has made you angry. And I do think the personal attacks are uncalled for.
Beyond that I would not like to add anything more. However thank you for writing in.
I think the person who commented needs to get his views straight.Such perverts sadly bring a bad name to the entire male populace.Sachin you seem to have issues.Its probably what you see happening within your family that makes you make such stupid comments.Don’t be prejudiced I am not going to pass judgment on every guy looking at that tweet.But your comment just proved that you are on the same wagon as the guy who tweeted that.
Why shouldn’t that tweet have caused a flutter? http://pagedin.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-shouldnt-that-tweet-have-caused.html
Hi,
Read your counter blog. Like I replied to another writer here, this topic will always be in fashion and subject for debate. There’s no expiry date to this.
To just clarify, I do not think I have passed judgement on any males. If I said, I think, then it means exactly that. Its not a judgement. I am still pondering.:-)
Anyways, I’m glad that its provoking debate. Good to see the discussion generated.
Hi Shalini, glad to know that you read my response to your post
‘No comments’ on your response to my response 
Congratulations on your first attempt at blogging. To top it you have managed to give it a title that rhymes. A very ‘thought’ provoking article really. Here is my two pennies on your post:
Disclaimer: I mean well.
To begin with, your title should have been: A tweet on twitter, which shouldn’t bother.
It is a joke – a quote – a mockery of relationships and marriages – but at the end of the day, it is a quote. Now a quote is a very interesting thing. It can inspire debates, inspire blog posts, inspire blog posts in response to blog posts and so on. But the real intention of the quote is always misquoted.
Frankly assuming I was the Oscar Wilde-ish wise crack who quoted this line but I did it in good humor, just like some woman who makes a scathing comment on the way men act after drinking. Now if my comment(or the wise lady’s comment) is posted on Twitter and someone finds it offensive or sexist perhaps, why must the humor in the quote be sidelined and the quote be analyzed for political and social correctness.
Having said the crap above I think we should run over the tweet again:
“marriage is like being in a bath tub. The more one got used to it, the less hot (as in desirable) it was”
Now pardon my lack of quality education and my extremely limited vocabulary, but where is the term ‘man’ or ‘woman’ mentioned in the quote? I mean where(and how) does it attack the woman in the marriage and not the man in the marriage? If the original author of this quote was a woman(which in all probabilities is possible), aren’t we ruining her case by attributing this quote to a man.
After all there are worse quotes, more scathing than this and which are actually directed at women can be easily googled. For the record, quotes which ridicule a man in a marriage can also be found with equal ease. Why generalize everything and write a pro-woman pro-marriage pro-indian culture and values post which falters on many points.
This comment can be callous and flippant but in now way is it sexist or chauvinistic. Unless you assume it to be. Neither does it attack women in any way, it doesn’t even attack marriage. It is a take on the shelf life of any relationship, live-in or marriage – and how important it is to keep the fire burning in any relationship whatsoever. Marriage is just an example, a means to the end.
This comment does not presume that the man is a perfect being before marriage. I suppose this is something you have falsely assumed. The imagery which it evoked in you is certainly different from the imagery which it evoked in me. I however choose to look at both sides of the image rather than making a quick judgement to forward my cause.
So should I judge you as being a Woman chauvinist just because you misinterpreted a quote on marriage to be a quote on women? Of course not. Because you mean well.
Again I cringe everytime you mention ‘Indian’ male in your post. Now that is what I call sexist. Also your finding that the ‘Indian’ male pastime is indulging in derogatory talk about marriage and other institutions is debatable. That is like saying that bitching is the national sport of ‘Indian’ women. It is time you grow out of your assumptions and appreciate popular humor. It is terms like ‘Indian’ make and female that prompt film-makers to make crap like ‘Kambaqt Ishq’.
Again just because I go for marriage doesn’t mean I cannot make fun of it. It is like if I joined a company I cannot complain about its inefficiency. Well, the indian culture and traditions that you bloat about in the rest of your post do not allow indian men to take the other choice. Stay single and make merry. Because the Vedas say that the Grihastha is a stage of life, not another option for the ‘Indian’ male. You contradict yourself in your post.
Marriage has never been a platform for sexual gratification. And I totally fail to see any sense in the paragraph where you mention this. Again every second para of your post smells of female chauvinism, sample this:
“I think it is because the Indian urban male of today is a confused soul.”
Do you imply that the Indian urban female(whoever that is) is a determined soul who discovers the purpose of her life in the incubator itself? Do you imply that the Indian ‘rural’ male is not confused? I fail to see your point completely.
Again to quote you:
” Now, the Indian male has been up until this point following the laws laid down since Vedic times that a man has to go through stages of life namely childhood, adolescence, marriage, career, children and then aging gracefully seeking enlightenment. Each stage had been well set and planned out. There was predictability and stability to the order of things ”
Is marriage a stage according to you or is it an option? And what do you mean uptil this point? I hardly know any Indian man before ‘this’ point(whereever in time and space this point is), who has followed these ‘laws’. Again last time I read the vedas I was told, that these are not ‘laws’ but ‘guidelines’ and you must understand that that makes all the difference in the world.
Again if you can quote Laila Majnu to be examples of failure of Love-based relationships, I can give you example of Ramayana and Mahabharata which depict fallacies of married life, in a very sacred sense.
Again the ‘occidental’ society knew the importance of marriage and also knew the importance of ‘love’ and thus it never tried to fathom the meaning of the ‘arranged’ marriage. However, if you study the various rituals pre and post marriage across cultures and religions, you’ll find hints to ‘arrangement’ everywhere, like parents setting up security amounts and property for the bride and the groom and so on. So it isn’t exactly an ‘Indian’ practice. It is prevalent in India because we chose it over its western counterpart. It is a matter of choice not of utility.
To be continued.
To quote you:
“Women are more expressive of their needs and in a society that didn’t care much about what the woman felt, such portrayal of equal partnership in a relationship was something that was not difficult for them to embrace. The men on the other hand though being equally drawn to the idea had difficulty in accepting the feminine part of themselves.
It was considered to be unmanly to be sentimental and accepting of the woman as his equal. So, to go into denial mode was the next best thing and what better way than to relegate the woman to the status of an object of pleasure.
”
I agree with the way you begin. Women definitely more expressive of their needs and emotions and ours is a society which didn’t care about them.
But equal partnership in a relationship wasn’t exactly nature’s plan too, I feel. I mean when the world was difficult and society was still forming, men were destined for physical labor and women were destined to stay home and take care of the family. Why?
Because a woman was considered by God to be important enough to be bestowed with the responsibility of giving birth to a child. It was sort of a compensation for the fact that she wasn’t allowed(given the physical limitations) adventure and the joys of the world outside. This was interpreted by some cultures and religions to consider the woman as the weaker sex(and this is entirely my opinion and not some historical fact).
So when you try to sound like an historian and say that ‘It WAS considered unmanly to be sentimental and accepting the woman as his equal’ – this is actually a physical discrimination and the way you put it makes it sound really sexist. A majority of men believe in letting their wives take important decisions. We were a male dominated society and we are moving towards a social system which pampers equality of the genders. And to achieve this we have to stop ranting about woman being an object of pleasure and we have to stop blaming the sexes for the mistakes that they collectively made. If your next blog post is on this issue, I’ll be very delighted to read it and I promise my comment would be shorter than this.
“It would be seriously amazing if we could marry the pragmatism and rootedness of our ancient culture with the headiness and passion of the west and bring alchemy to this relationship that we take as bedrock of the unit called family.”
This line of yours affirms my faith in your writing. Very well put though I hope you understand this in entirety without any inherent bias towards ‘occidental’ philosophies.
“Love is a beautiful emotion and it should be the basis for any meaningful relationship. It allows both the partners to respect and cherish each other. At the same time there should be the space for the respective partners to grow and bloom. If our Indian males can grow up to accept that women are their equals and cherish their differences, there will be less people making such unthinking comments as that which spurred me to put down my thoughts.”
I smiled when I began reading this part but by the time I came to the ‘our Indian males’ part, I was disappointed again. Males are males everywhere, Indian, American or Neanderthal.
I really pity the ‘unintentionally’ ‘unthinking’ comment which ‘spurred’ you to write this post. I hope the ‘Indian’ male twitter users are more responsible and avoid making such comments so that you are not ‘spurred’ into writing such a post again.
I wouldn’t like to comment on Gibran’s piece that you’ve quoted here because when he says – Love one another, but make not a bond of love – only he knows what he means and believes. We can only twist his words to prove our context.
However, as your first blog post, this is very impressive and may you write more as you progress. Congratulations on being chosen by BlogAdda(which coincidently brought me here).
Again, I might have been very offensive in my comments and would like to apologize if I have hurt your sentiments in any way. It is something that I deeply feel about and thus wanted to speak to my heart’s content.
Thus the disclaimer.
Have fun and take care.(and feel free to delete these comments, it is after all your blog, your post and your opinion)
P.S.: I could have(or rather should have) written these comments into a blog post but then I’d miss what other readers had to think about our little disagreement.
Whew!!!! That was a looooooong comment and as you said it should have been a blog post by itself.
There are some really good observations and it makes me think in a different way on some of the issues.
Thank you for your bouquets and brickbats. It is a very truthful one and unpretentitious at that and hence i value it more.
I shall try to keep writing. Thank you once again.
Well, thanks for taking my comments in a positive manner and do ponder over the arguments that we put up here. This way, we both evolve a better understanding on the issue.
And thanks for giving me something to do at 4 am in the morning!
Take care.
And may God forgive me for the typos. Amen.
@ Shanthanu: I agree with you on the part that the post smells of ‘female chauvinism” [not feminism, note that! and thanks for giving the attitude the right word bro!]
But….when you say….
“But equal partnership in a relationship wasn’t exactly nature’s plan too, I feel. I mean when the world was difficult and society was still forming, men were destined for physical labor and women were destined to stay home and take care of the family. Why?” – not on this one! There is not scientific evidence to prove that women are physically inferior to man. In fact, women are more physically and emotionally enduring than men.
When it is about physical health, women are way better than men. I think this idea of a ‘weaker sex’ is socially generated!
@Sojo:
I can vaguely remember having studied in biology that the Basal Metabolic Rate(BMR) of women is more than that of a man. I am not sure, neither is Google helping me on the issue. But I find it difficult to take your word for the fact that women are not physically inferior than men.
But I do believe that using the term ‘weaker’ is a blatant generalization considering the fact that most women are emotionally more stable than men and can handle stress better.
And let us for once assume (without any scientific evidence whatsoever) that women are physically inferior to men(read: not weaker, physically inferior as in muscular strength, over-all body weight and certain more parameters), does that make them less important or inferior? Of course not.
I believe both sexes, regardless of the way history and society has treated them so far, should treat each other with equal amounts of respect understanding the weaknesses of the other.
So my wife bears with the emotional tantrum I throw when my favorite football team loses a match and I bear with my wife’s simple demands of affection every once in a while. Peace, my brother, is what we need. Not Conflict. Not people who believe that ‘it is difficult to fathom why females require so much from a male’ or people who are ‘ready to brand people perverts and assume people have family troubles, based on what they say’. Some windows need to be opened.
Thanks for your comment brother, and I can totally understand the ‘response’ to your blog post. Take a cue from me and write a response where people will read it..
Cheers.!
@ Shanthanu: The article on BMR in Wikipedia suggests there is no difference in the BMR of ether sexes, though the claim is not yet backed by a citation. It is calculated using different equations and perhaps that is the reason why people think there is a difference in BMR! Even I could not go further than that.
I agree with you – “I believe both sexes, regardless of the way history and society has treated them so far, should treat each other with equal amounts of respect understanding the weaknesses of the other.”
‘Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus’ is an outdated notion. I believe women are capable of anything that a man is capable of, be it good or bad.
And about my Blog Post and people not reading it:
1. The primary reason why I wrote my response to this post on my blog is because I want to keep a record of what I read and what I think about what I read. I don’t know if you think people haven’t read it because there are no comments on it, is it? If you take the comments on this post as the benchmark of popularity, only 12 people have read it! I am sure, many more would have read it and left without commenting for various reason. I’ll tell you a secret: My traffic tracker says that 85% of my traffic to pagedIN came from referrals and 15% came from direct hits and an average page view of 5.08, after this post
[Thanks Shalini) Referral Hits are those people who read my post I guess!
2. The reason why I wanted to respond to this post: I'm already pissed of at the pseudo-feminist attitude that is doing rounds, portraying men as rapist, droolers and animals probably because they derive some pleasure out of it. And this post added fuel to that, simply because it has its context wrong! I was also disappointed by the fact, as you rightly noticed, someone who commented called a guy who commented here 'pervert' Read his comment, and I don't see any perversion in here. I think he was simply suggesting, this is pseudo-feminism.
3. The reason why I thought I must respond to this post: This post tries to propose that 'Indian Urban Male is confused" I can't simply agree with that. If at all [Stress 'if'] there is a gender who is confused today, it is the Indian Urban Female. I’ll tell you why? I think these girls are really confused between ‘the traditional idea of Indian Woman’ and the ‘modern urge of what an Indian Woman wants to be’ I would call it a confusion between ‘Sari’ and ‘Mini Skirt’ [Please don't take Sari and Mini Skirt literally, they are just symbols] And I can’t simply agree when they project their confusion on the male counterpart.
@Sojo:
1. Hey, the only reason I mentioned ‘response’ in relation to your blog was because you mentioned it in the comment to Shalini. And I for once do not take comments as the bench mark of popularity because not every post demands a comment. Thanks for your traffic details but I never meant to compare or comment on your blog’s popularity. Sorry if my words seemed to suggest that.
2. I agree with you there. However both the guy and the girl are at fault. They guy’ attitude is what forces feminists to call men a confused soul. However to call him ‘pervert’ without even knowing the meaning of the word ‘pervert’ in the complete sense is stooping down to his levels. I am not sure what he was suggesting, but whatever it was, it wasn’t pseudo feminism, and in any case, he didn’t mince his words properly.
3. Kindly(read: please) do no use the Indian Urban Male and Female thing. Please.
From where I can see it, both sexes have been separated for a long long time. Boys hostels, girls hostels, boys sitting on one side of the classroom, girls on another. I think as these divides are ending, both sexes are coming out of their respective shells. BOTH are confused. Women are confused because they are challenging things they seldom challenged before and men are confused because they no longer see women the way they used to see them. I think we can end the blame game here and let the ‘Indian’ ‘Urban’ ‘Male and Female’ rest in peace!
Amen.
“Women are confused because they are challenging things they seldom challenged before and men are confused because they no longer see women the way they used to see them.” – Amen
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